David Tepper Says Market Isn't a Bubble: His Thoughts on Valuation, Tapering, Airlines & More

After the Robin Hood Investors Conference last week, Appaloosa Management founder David Tepper sat down with Bloomberg TV to talk about the markets.


On market valuation: He does not think we're in a bubble now as he compared P/E multiples over the last 5 years to the 5-year period running up to the 2000 bubble.  Stocks now have seen little change in multiples, while stocks back then saw huge multiple expansion.

On airlines:  "Our big play versus the market is the airlines.  We're the biggest holder of many of these airlines." We flagged this big bet for readers of our Hedge Fund Wisdom newsletter over a year ago.  See what else Tepper is betting on by subscribing (a brand new issue was just released last week).

On his 2014 investing approach: "We'll probably stay long.  We recently put on a treasury short, to hedge ourselves against the equity markets.  Little bit scared of tapering... higher rates... though rates won't go that high."

On to be worried about: "I would be worried if I was a long/short guy and not long enough, that's what I'd be worried about.  But I'm not worried, because I am long.  But if I'm a L/S guy who can only go 60% long ... the biggest risk for the market is you'll have multiple expansion, higher growth, 10% earnings growth next year, and you'll have another year of 20-30% (performance)."

On J.C. Penney (JCP): "It was a tiny position... a trade and we're done."

On Twitter (TWTR):  They would have held Twitter longer, but they had a price target in the $40's and so when the stock hit that in the first days of trading, he exited.  "It's a discipline."

On Citigroup (C):  "Citi still has some pretty good upside, we think it can make 7 bucks a share."

On his performance this year:  "I think gross we're in the 40's (%)."

On tapering:  He does think it's time to start tapering. He also said: "There can be a short-term negative reaction.  But if you're tapering, it's because there's stronger underlying US growth.  And if there's growth, there's going to be higher P/E multiples and the market should be higher.  If the market goes down, that's great, it'll be one more opportunity that people will be come and buy."

On what a lower Japanese Yen means: "It means higher P/E multiples in Japanese companies, straight out.  That's the way it works, because they're such exporters. So when you have a weaker yen, you have higher earnings."


Embedded below is the video of Tepper's Bloomberg TV appearance:



For more on the Appaloosa manager, head to Tepper's other recent interview where he said he thinks the market could see an 18-20x multiple.

Jeremy Hosking's Presentation at London Value Conference: Long AIG & US Airways

Continuing our notes from the London Value Investor Conference 2013, the next speaker is Jeremy Hosking, an entrepreneur and fund manager.  He presented the long case on both AIG (AIG) and US Airways (LCC).


On Opportunities in Markets

The theme of Jeremy Hosking's presentation was how the money management industry can produce  opportunities for value investors. There is a limited amount of opportunity in markets and we are all  fighting over it, Hosking said. It helps to have someone making opportunity at the poker table and  that is a role often played by institutional asset managers. Institutional funds cause:

-  Agent principal damage via high fees
-  Diseconomies of scale. The bigger the pool of assets the harder to outperform
-  Product proliferation (often at the top of the market)
-  Herding by fund managers is a disservice to the client

Herding by fund managers takes many forms: short termism, inside asset classes (“better to fail  conventionally”), volatility avoidance, excessive information processing, preference for high liquidity stocks, too much investment in mega cap stocks, high fees.

And while Hosking talked about herding, it is slightly ironic that he then went on to pitch AIG.  While the bull case on the company makes sense, it is held by many prominent US hedge funds as a top long and could be considered a 'herding' pick in and of itself.  But to be fair, perhaps it's not a consensus long over in the UK.  


Idea: Long AIG (AIG: NYSE)  

Cheap at 0.6x book. Cyclical improvement in underwriting. Sale of non-core assets nearly always  helps the share price. $5bn per annum in share buybacks. 30% reduction in share count between  2011-15. Use of data mining/ analytics will improve product mix and growth rate.


Idea: Long US Airways (LCC: NYSE)  

Industrial consolidation leaves US Airways as one of the big three. Operating cost compression  reinforces oligopoly. Shares to merge into New American on 1-for-1 basis Q3 2013. Post merger  EBITDAR of $8.3bn produces EV target of $50bn (6x multiple) or $50 per share target after net  debt.


Be sure to check out other investor presentations: notes from the 2013 London Value Investor Conference.

David Tepper Says Be Long Equities

Continuing his round of rare recent media appearances, Appaloosa Management's David Tepper was on Bloomberg today telling people "to be long equities" as he's bullish.  Last month we highlighted his other interview where he said there's a lot of upside in equities,


Bullish on Equities


Valuation is part of the reasoning for his bullish call on equities as a whole: "If you look at the markets, they are trading at a really low multiple. 13 handle this year, 11 handle next year on the S&P."

Additionally, he simply points to the vast money creation across the globe as a reason to continue to ride the equity train.

He drew attention to an incredibly underweight equities stance by retail investors, pensions and more.  He feels that eventually there will be a shift.  Inflows to equity funds at the start of the year were at higher levels than they have been in quite some time.

Tepper gave a memo to long/short managers too, saying "good luck, because you can't get long enough" in this environment as he feels there will be a 'party like the 90's.'  Arguing potential for 20-30% returns in equities, he feels you don't want to be long risk averse assets like Treasuries, the yen, or the swiss franc.  He says to be long equites and 'equity-like' things.

His most notable soundbite was probably when he said that the US is on the "verge of an explosion of greatness."  Regarding Europe, Tepper feels that the tail risk there is a non-issue, at least for this year.


Likes Citigroup (C)

He pointed out his fondness for shares of Citigroup (C), arguing that it potentially has 50% upside from here, saying the company's foreign business is very valuable. 


Bullish on Airlines

Tepper highlights the reasons to like airline stocks:  a potential strong dollar scenario and oil remains largely flat (due to potential new discoveries etc), you have an industry that will do will in that scenario, and you have a consolidating industry, and you have capacity down this year.  He's looking for some airlines to start returning capital as well.

Our Hedge Fund Wisdom newsletter flagged Tepper's fondness for airlines a few quarters ago.  He owns US Airways (LCC) and Delta Airlines (DAL).


On Position Sizing & Liquidity

While everyone will focus on Tepper's bullish comments, he made a good point regarding position sizing and tracking his hedge fund's holdings.  While Citigroup is one of his larger positions, he mentioned it's only a 1.5% or 2% position compared to his firm's overall AUM.

Tepper says that instead of looking at the position size of the investment relative to his firm's AUM, look at how much of a given company that they own if you're tracking their positions.

He notes that he sizes positions accordingly to how easily they can get in and out.  He says that, "I value liquidity a lot."  So he's a long-term investor but he likes stocks like Apple (AAPL) that are extremely liquid.  He learned a very valuable lesson in 1998 regarding liquidity in Russia and that obviously shapes his decisions to this day.   

He also touched on how he started Appaloosa, something that's explained in more detail in the book The Alpha Masters.  We've highlighted an excerpt from the book in the past that touches on why his firm is named Appaloosa.


Below is the video of David Tepper's interview with Bloomberg:



If you missed it, be sure to also check out Tepper's other recent interview on CNBC as well.