Warren Buffett Interview: Bought More Apple, Berkshire Buys Back Stock

Warren Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway was just interviewed by Becky Quick on CNBC.  Here's a summary of his thoughts:

He notes he bought a little more Apple (AAPL) recently.  He doesn't care about one quarter or one year's worth of iPhones sold.  He'd obviously like to see each product cycle do well, but he notes he's mainly viewing the company as an indispensible utility.  He argues that the value you get on a daily basis for only $1000 (price of an iPhone) it's a no-brainer.  People are so attached to their devices and use them for so many different things.  He doesn't own an iPhone but has an iPad and uses it frequently.  Would love to see the stock pullback as he could buy more or the company could buyback more stock at cheaper levels.

Berkshire hasn't been buying more airline stocks mainly because he doesn't want to go over the 10% ownership threshold in them, and he has to trim them if the companies are buying back stock.

Buffett said that consumer packaged goods are a good business from a return on tangible assets perspective.  While he acknowledged the businesses have seen increased competition and changing consumer tastes, they're still a good place to be.  He likes brands but is aware it's a tougher environment than it used to be, especially with the stocks much higher these days.  When asked about Campbells (CPB), he said Berkshire wouldn't be interested but he couldn't really speak for Kraft Heinz (KHC).  He said it's very hard to offer a premium for a packaged goods company.

Berkshire bought a little bit of its stock recently, Buffett notes.  They removed the previous restriction of a multiple of book value.  They're now looking at it from an intrinsic business value perspective.

"The economy since the fall of 2009 has gotten progressively better, but it started from a very low base.  We've had 9 full years of improvement in business. Business is good, across the board."

Noted that stocks are better than bonds and real estate.

He's seeing inflation in input costs on raw materials.  It's hard to say if that's due to the tariff situation or other factors, but he noted it increased certainly over the last year and particularly after the trade war situation.  He specifically noted steel, building materials, as well as paint cans as areas where they're seeing increased costs.

On Fed chairman Jay Powell, Buffett likes him and thinks he's doing a good job and will do what's best for the economy.

Warren Buffett CNBC Interview: Summary & Transcript

CNBC's Becky Quick interviewed Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett on a range of topics yesterday.  Below is a summary of noteworthy comments and a link to the full transcript.


On tax reform:  "It's a huge tailwind. And it's particularly a tailwind if you've got-- particularly for companies that have had lots of depreciation and taken bonus depreciation up front. So it's a big item-- there. Not as many companies have lots of appreciation and marketable securities, but it's a big item for those that do."


On market valuation:  "I mean, it--in fact, I-- the market-- the stock market relative to the long-term bond market-- people have free choices, pretty much, if they're going to be in marketable securities. They can own reasonably long-term bonds, they can own equities, or they can keep it in short-term cash equivalents. And--- if-you had to choose between buying long-term bonds or equities-- I would choose equities in a minute now ...

That doesn't mean I think the stock market is gonna go up or anything else. But if- I were going to own a 30-year government bond or own equity for 30 years, I think equities will considerably outperform that 30-year bond over the 30 years. I don't know what they're gonna do in any day or week or month ...

In-- so far this year we've been-- a net buyer, although we sold-- a chunk of Phillips to get below 10%"


On whether he would buy any parts of General Electric (GE):  "If we like the business and the price was right, we could write a check for cash. And that would apply to GE. They've got a few big businesses. I don't think they want to sell them, but they have some smaller units that they're interested in selling. But we're always in the market for a big business that we can understand and that we like, and we think that we've got the management for and so on."


On Buffett's favorite stock, besides Berkshire:  "Well, if you look at our holdings, you would assume that we like them in the order in which they rank by dollar value of holdings. But if you look at them in terms of recent purchases, you know, over the last year, we've bought more Apple than anything else ... I haven't told you what I might have been buying in the last week. Or month"


Shoutout to CNBC for asking the question we submitted on Twitter via the #AskWarren hashtag:  Has Buffett ever disagreed with any of Todd (Combs) or Ted's (Weschler) investments, and why?



"Yeah, well, they make their own decisions, 100% and they each manage $12 billion or $13 billion now. Well, they started actually, I think when Todd came about a year ahead of Ted. And I think maybe it was $2 billion, but it has increased at various points and then they've earned a lot of money for Berkshire, which builds up for them, too. There's certainly – they've done things I wouldn't have done. But I've done things they wouldn't do, too. I mean, I want them to figure out their own. The choices – they are good at managing money, and they've got the advantage of managing smaller sums than I'm running. But they've got the disadvantage of running quite a bit larger sums than most people run. I mean, it gets more difficult with size. But they not only have done a good job of managing the money and trusted them. But they've contributed to Berkshire in just dozens of ways. They were sensational hires."

Becky Quick then followed up and asked if he talks to Todd/Ted about investments beforehand:

"No, not ahead a time. And there's a number of them I haven't talked with them at all. I couldn't even – I couldn't name three quarters of their portfolio. I couldn't tell you the amounts. I don't remember that well. But I've gotten ideas from them. But they take on other tasks. I mean, Todd is on the health care situation. He's there on Saturday. I was there on Saturday. He's there all day talking to people around the country in terms of looking for the right CEO and that sort of thing. They are enormous contributors to Berkshire."


On owning Samsung in the past:  "I don't own them, and Berkshire doesn't own them now. But Berkshire has owned Samsung. It doesn't get reported in our 13F.  But I think I'm right on that. I'm 99% sure. And so we bought some when Samsung was at about a million yuan – you got to divide that by something over 1,000 – we bought a reasonable amount. We did sell it when it went up. It's higher than this now. It went up to 1.8 million, or something. I think it's around 2 million, 2.3 million or 2.4 million. The yuan went in our favor a little bit too. So we did a little bit better in dollars."


On why he sold IBM in favor of buying more Apple (AAPL):  "Well I was wrong on – at least I felt I was wrong on IBM. Now, I may have been wrong when I sold it, too. But I certainly was wrong when I bought it. And I've felt that Apple has an extraordinary consumer franchise. Apple's a different kind of business than IBM. They're both tech, obviously, in a major way. And they even have a joint venture, you know, on some things. But I think I understand consumer behavior perhaps better than I do the tech business. It wouldn't take much to beat it. And I liked it, I like Tim Cook very much. I like their policies. I see how strong that ecosystem is. It's to an extraordinary degree. I mean, I look at my grandchildren, my great grandchildren and everybody in the office, I mean, their families. I talk to the people at the Furniture Mart when the ten hadn't arrived, nobody goes over to, you know, buy an Android. I mean, you are very, very, very locked in at least psychologically and mentally, to the product you're using. I mean, you got all kinds of stuff up on there. It's a very sticky product."


On the airline industry (he owns stakes in AAL, UAL, DAL, LUV): "It's-- a business that's-- always subject to somebody doing something very dumb competitively. And—-- they've done it a lot in the past. There was more chance of them doing it when there were seven of 'em than the big ones, than-- than four. I mean, the industry was suicidally competitive for decades. I mean, they net lost money-- and-- while they were growing like crazy in units. And I was on the board of U.S. Air so I saw how it all happened. And it can turn into fierce competitive battles that'll wipe out earnings. Or it can be a business that's more decent, but still subject to lots of competition. And-- it's really hard to know, you know, for sure how it will develop. It's-- not risk free in their competition at all. In-- in the railroad business, all the tracks have been pretty much laid and all of that. So that settled into a business. Now, it's regulated and means that your earnings, you know, can only-- you're a common carrier. And-- many places, you compete with another railroad, and other places, you don't. And there're different rules that apply even in terms of pricing in those cases. But it's a perfectly decent business. It will lose volume in coal over time. And that's an important product. But it'll probably gain in other areas. So it's-- it's two different animals."


On stocks and volatility:  "Well, some people should not own stocks at all because they just get too upset with price fluctuations. If you're going to do dumb things because a stock goes down, you shouldn't own a stock at all ... But some people are not actually emotionally or psychologically fit to own stocks. But I think more of them would be if you get educated on what you're really buying, which is part of a business. And the longer you hold stocks, the less risky they become, whereas the longer the maturity of a bond, the more risky it becomes."

Here's a link to the full CNBC Warren Buffett interview transcript.

And for even more, be also sure to check out Warren Buffett's 2017 annual letter.

Bill Miller Wealthtrack Interview

Bill Miller recently appeared on Consuelo Mack's WealthTrack for an interview.  He's beat the S&P 500 for 15 consecutive years when he worked at Legg Mason.  Then he had a few years of underperformance and has come back with Miller Value Partners, an independent investment advisory firm. 

Here are some of the key takeaways:

-  Looks for stocks trading at a discount to intrinsic business value (present value of future free cashflow): looks for business that are naturally cash generative and buys them when free cashflow yield is 50% or more higher than the market.

-  Noted that typical value investors look for accounting value versus economic value.  Cites them missing Amazon (AMZN) as an example over the past 20 years.

-  Miller looks for "companies that can earn above their cost of capital through an economic cycle."

-  "Where you can really make significant amounts of money is when an industry changes from being one that doesn't generate economic value to one that does."  One example of this he cites is the airlines now.  Now they've had positive cashflow ever since 2009.  He owns Delta (DAL), United (UAL), American Airlines (AAL).  Consolidation has played a huge role.  As we've noted before, Warren Buffett is also now a large shareholder of airlines.

- Also owns Valeant Pharmaceuticals (VRX) equity in one fund and the bonds in another fund.  Notes that Bill Ackman has sold his VRX position.  Miller was buying around $30.  Thinks "perceived risk is way underpriced to real risk."  Thinks it could be a $50-60 stock in 3 or 4 years.

-  Miller thinks Apollo Group (APO) and Carlyle Group (CG) are cheap.  We've highlighted how Tiger Global has been buying APO as well.

-  Miller doesn't think the market is overvalued on a relative or absolute basis.  Especially compared to other asset classes it's cheap.

-  Likes Intrexon (XON), leading company in synthetic biology (think re-writing DNA). 

-  If he had to pick one stock to own for the long-term he'd pick Amazon (AMZN).  Compared it to Alphabet (GOOGL) and Facebook (FB) and their core business is the $500-600 billion ad market which is growing 5% a year.  Whereas AMZN's core business is retail.  US retail alone is $5 trillion so the total addressable market is huge.  Not to mention Amazon Web Services, etc.

Embedded below is the video of Bill Miller's Wealthtrack interview:



For more recent Wealthtrack interviews, we've also posted Consuelo Mack's interview with Joel Greenblatt.

What We're Reading ~ 4/5/17

Modern Monopolies: What It Takes to Dominate the 21st Century [Alex Moazed]

How moats make a difference [Intrinsic Investing]

Boyar Research's thesis on QVC and Madison Square Garden [Barrons]

Autonomous cars and second order consequences [Benedict Evans]

The hardest question in portfolio management [A Wealth of Common Sense]

Diversification, adaptation, and stock market valuations [Philosophical Economics]

Noise: how to overcome the high, hidden cost of inconsistent decisions [Harvard Biz Review]

How Domino's built a $9 billion empire [Bloomberg]

How do winning consumer goods companies capture growth? [McKinsey]

Airlines make more money selling miles than seats [Bloomberg]

At Blackrock, machines are rising over managers to pick stocks [NYTimes]

What's next for malls? [Fashionista]

Andrew Ng on what AI can and can't do [Harvard Business Review]

Margin debt hit all time high in February [WSJ]

The 1% rule: why a few people get most of the rewards [James Clear]

What We're Reading ~ 1/25/17

US investors favored passive funds over active by a record margin in 2016 [Morningstar]

The best investment writings of 2016 [Meb Faber]

On 3G Capital and the Kraft Heinz merger [Fortune]

A chat with Daniel Kahneman [Collaborative Fund]

Lunch with Bill Gates [FT]

What is your edge? [Base Hit Investing]

On expected risk [A Wealth of Common Sense]



Simon Property Group fights to reinvent the shopping mall [Fortune]

Facebook: Inside Instagram's reinvention [Recode]

Amazon expands into ocean freight [WSJ]

A pitch on Bolloré [Greenwood Investors]

Trump team compiles infrastructure priority list [McClatchy]

New FCC chief wants to destroy net neutrality [CNBC]

The great A.I. awakening [NYTimes]

Summary of some of the latest tech products featured at CES [Learning By Shipping]

Americans use debit cards twice as much as credit [Marketwatch]

China's biggest messaging app is on a collision course with Apple [TechInAsia]

How Social Cash made WeChat the app for everything [Fast Company]

When the Chinese come out to shop [OliverWyman]

How Netflix lost big to Amazon in India [Backchannel]

The best and worst airlines of 2016 [WSJ]

Carlos Slim's profit margins are right where Mexico wants them [Bloomberg]

Reasons to buy bonds in 2017 [Peter Lazaroff]

SALT Conference Notes 2016: Griffin, Cooperman, Burbank, Chanos & More

The Skybridge Alternatives Conference, better known as the SALT Conference, is taking place in Las Vegas this week.  It's a multi-day affair with many speakers on a broad range of subjects.  We've condensed notes into primarily finance/investing thoughts from various hedge fund managers and investors below.


2016 SALT Conference Notes


Ken Griffin (Citadel):  Talked about how he built Citadel and the importance of culture at an organization.  'Avoid marrying a strategy' and instead focus on building a platform with the best people.  Business really taught him how to delegate and manage people.  On finding good talent: you've gotta be able to sell them on why they should leave and come to you.  You have to go out and find that talent instead of waiting for them to come to you.  The ones that 'knock on your door' aren't the best.  One interesting quote:  "Who is the number five manufacturer of personal computers?  Who cares?  We're in a more and more winner take all world."


Leon Cooperman (Omega Advisors):  He talked about a trend of investors moving from active to passive strategies and says that hedge fund performance can't really justify the fees these days, so fees need to come down.  He said that long-term (i.e. 'permanent') capital is doing good because they don't have to worry about lockups (citing Warren Buffett).  The other winner has been quant strategies.  Pitched the stock First Data (FDC) which recently IPO'd.  Says he's got around ~20% of his fund in structured credit at the moment.  Reiterated his belief that conditions for a recession are not present (a concept he's talked about for a while now).  Thinks the bubble is in fixed income.  Government bonds are a bad idea.  Likes Tetragon Financial, yields 7%, dividend coverage of 4x.  Buying a stock trading at half of book.


Kyle Bass (Hayman Capital):  Implied that investors need to lower their return expectations over the next few decades (5% global real return expectation).  Also agreed that fees for funds need to come down.  Says it's much harder to maintain investors than it is conviction.  Thinks we're in the early part of '07 in terms of credit/equity markets.  Says a hard landing in China is happening as we speak. Argues that China credit system is one of the biggest macro imbalances, something has to give sooner rather than later.  Hong Kong real estate is collapsing.


Roslyn Zhang (China Investment Corp):  Sovereign Wealth Fund.  Disappointed with hedge fund performance.  Compared Chinese retail investors to hedge fund herding.  Criticized those betting against the Chinese Yuan.  Argued that China's economy is still strong and that all of the building is due to the massive population; supply can be absorbed.


Sam Zell (Equity Group Investments):  Cost of regulation has gone up around 5x over the last decade.  Have been big investors in Brazil, Far East, Mexico. 


Ty Wallach (Paulson & Co):  Thinks specialty pharma stocks are oversold.  Specifically pointed out Valeant Pharmaceuticals (VRX) bonds.  Bought at 80cents on the dollar and says the co still has $10bn in equity value.  Could sell one of the many companies they've acquired if they need to cover debt payments.


Jeff Smith (Starboard Value): Activist investor.  Says settled with Yahoo (YHOO), put four new members on the board.  Notes the parts of the company are worth more than where its trading.  Core biz with $4bn in revenue, huge stake in Alibaba, Yahoo Japan, add it all up and it's more than the current market cap.  Said 'we're friendly but no one describes us as passive.'


Scott Ferguson (Sachem Head Capital):  Sold out of Zoetis (ZTS).  We noted how Pershing Square was also selling ZTS recently.  Ferguson was the one that brought the idea to Ackman to begin with (he used to work at Pershing).  Talked about how to change leadership and achieve things on behalf of investors: "Money's a great way to effectuate things" i.e. severance for getting rid of a CEO.  Says things are easier for activists these days and companies are more likely to engage. 


Clifton Robbins (Blue Harbour Group):  Activist investor.  Owns 10% of Investors Bancorp (ISBC), says it's trading at a discount to peers.  Also talked about Xilinx (XLNX), a net-cash semiconductor play; says they have some ideas as to how to utilize the balance sheet.


Michael Lewis (Author of Flash Boys and The Big Short):  Said he was surprised that both Moneyball and The Big Short were made into movies.  Said Christian Bale was dead-on with his interpretation of Michael Burry after just spending some hours with him.


Richard Chilton (Chilton Investments): Sherwin Williams (SHW): makes premium paint and coatings.  Says the company's purchase of Valspar was years in the making and they can repay the price with free cashflow in about 5 years.  Thinks there's a lot of synergies and margin overlap.  SHW does higher margins in paint/consumer and VAL does better margins in industrial coatings.  "You can't buy paint online."


John Lykouretzos (Hoplite Capital):  Takes a bit of an issue with the 'oligopoly' theme of airlines, saying it's still a competitive industry with margin pressure.  Bearish on the industry.  Main threats: excess capacity, union labor wage hikes, and of course higher oil prices.  Says that low cost carriers (LCC's) have basically destroyed the chance for legacy airlines to become a true oligopoly.  Thinks American Airlines (AAL) is the most compelling short play there.  Has some of the highest costs & exposure to rising oil.  High leverage.  Weakest FCF generation of the group.  Thinks that Southwest Airlines (LUV) can still add capacity even at higher oil prices (~$80 or so) and still generate high IRR.


John Burbank (Passport Capital):  Says China won't let outside companies 'win' especially Facebook.  "It's a hard place to win if you're not Chinese."  (While he didn't mention it, just look at Amazon's failed venture there as well).  Burbank owns Tencent (700.HK) with short Chinese Renminbi as partial hedge.  Thinks it isn't as much of a crowded trade as Facebook (FB) is.  His slide also said "Short FXI: Hedge out 'Old China' country-specific risk with China large cap ETF."


Jim Chanos (Kynikos Associates): Still short Cheniere Energy (LNG), calling it a 'pipe dream' and very expensive to peers.  Trades at 11-12x EV/EBITDA using "base case" 2021 EBITDA of $2.1bn.  Peers trading between 5-7x 2020 EBITDA.  Also commented on Alibaba (BABA) saying their accounting is dubious and that you don't really know what they're earning, calls it some of the most questionable he's ever seen. Chanos also recently talked about some of his short positions at the Sohn Conference.


For other recent hedge fund manager thoughts, head to our notes from Sohn Conference New York 2016.

Jamie Dinan's Rules of Investing & Current Market Thoughts (York Capital)

Jamie Dinan of hedge fund York Capital made a rare appearance on CNBC today and talked about his current market outlook, his rules of investing, and some of his stock picks these days.


Current market thoughts:  Instead of likening last year's positive market return to that of a beta move, he called it "an engagement move," as both investors and companies re-engaged.  Dinan says it's definitely a stock picker's market right now as corporate activity has picked up.


Latest exposures:  While his largest exposure is the US, he says York is increasingly moving to Europe for opportunities.  "We think European equities are apples to apples less expensive than their North American counterparts."  He also thinks the dealflow in Europe is about 6-12 months behind the US and he anticipates it picking up.


Dinan's rules of investing: He says the best thing to do in investing is learn from your mistakes.  His rules are:  focus on liquidity (so you can get out if you're wrong), be diversified, always be diversified (you never know where the dangers are gonna hit).

He says managing position sizes is also key (they run 50-60 positions at 1-4% position sizes).  Dinan argues to size positions not by how much you can make, but by how much you can lose.  The last important thing is leverage (or lack thereof).   He also noted that, "I find the trick in investing is to try not to give too much back" (after you're up a good amount).


York's stock picks:  They continue to like American Airlines (AAL) as the merger has completed and the industry is starting to act a lot more rational and margins are improving.  He thinks AAL can earn $6+ next year and applies a 10x multiple to that number.  And when looking at stocks they own that are up a lot, they ask themselves: "If we didn't own it, would we buy it today?"  He says AAL falls in this category and they'd still buy it.  As noted in our newly released Hedge Fund Wisdom issue, AAL was a consensus buy among the hedge funds tracked in Q4.

York also likes a potential consolidation play between Men's Wearhouse (MW) and Jos A. Bank (JOSB) as he highlights the potential cost savings that could come from a merger here.  He feels you can double the profitability if the companies combine. 

Dinan also touched on his stake in Hertz (HTZ) as he likes how the industry has consolidated and the fleet has rationalized.  He also highlights their equipment rental business that they think could be spun-off and the company could take advantage of its balance sheet and buyback stock.

Embedded below are the videos of Dinan's interview:

Video 1

Video 2

Video 3

Video 4


For more on York Capital's leading man, check out Dinan's other recent interview.

Jamie Dinan Likes Airlines, Hertz & Sprint/T-Mobile: Interview

York Capital's James Dinan appeared on CNBC today and talked about his latest market views.

He said they own most of the major airlines and notes these companies are now being run like businesses and can make money even at $95 oil.

He specifically mentioned American Airlines (AAL) and thinks there's great optionality here as they've merged with US Air and will have a great management team.  While some of these mergers can be rocky at the start, he thinks the value will be realized.  This has been a big hedge fund trade as of late with the likes of David Tepper and Julian Robertson also being involved in many of these names.

Dinan's biggest position is Hertz (HTZ) and he says it's a consolidation play as they'll see cost savings and revenue synergies from the Dollar Thrifty merger as well as fleet rationalization.  A few quarters ago, our Hedge Fund Wisdom newsletter flagged this popular trade and posted a write-up on Avis Budget (CAR), another beneficiary of the consolidation.

York thinks that this environment is great for event-driven investing, especially due to low interest rates.  Dinan also sees earnings going up next year and thinks companies will continue to do buybacks.  He also said he likes Sprint (S) and T-Mobile (TMUS).


Here are the videos of Dinan's appearance:

Video 1


Video 2


Video 3


Video 4