Lee Cooperman on 3 Stages of a Bull Market: Interview

Omega Advisors' Lee Cooperman spoke with CNBC this morning.  He thinks markets are fairly valued and he thinks a 15-16x multiple is about right.  He doesn't think it's a bargain anymore.

Cooperman on the 3 Stages of a Bull Market

Phase 1: "Wow we survived."  As the market bottoms and pessimism slowly starts to fade.
Phase 2: "Reflecting that which is perspective."  4-5 years of rising economic activity.
Phase 3: "Exuberance phase, the silliness phase where people forget about the mistakes."  He doesn't think we're quite there yet, but there are pockets of silly valuation like Potbelly (PBPB) and Telsa (TSLA).


His Stock Picks Now

"What we're looking for is to find more growth at a lower valuation."  He said he's looking at 'red chips' instead of 'blue chip' stocks and specifically touched on Sprint Nextel (S).   He also likes Motorola Solutions (MSI), Swatch Group (UHR), Sandridge Energy (SD), and Qualcomm (QCOM).

Embedded below are the videos of Cooperman's interview:


Video 1 on bull market stages


Video 2 on Sprint (S)


Video 3


Video 4 on Qualcomm (QCOM)


For more hedge fund thoughts, we also posted up David Tepper's interview from today.

Stock Pick Performance From Value Investing Congress Speakers Presenting at September's Event

The Value Investing Congress is only a few weeks away and will take place on September 16th & 17th in New York.  MarketFolly readers can receive discounted admission by clicking here and using code: N13MF7  This code expires tonight so be sure to take advantage.


Performance of Last Year's Picks From Speakers

We thought we'd check in on the performance of the stock picks from last year's Value Investing Congress.  These picks are from speakers who presented last year that will also be presenting again this year.

Here's the performance breakdown from October 3rd, 2012 until August 29th, 2013:

- 17 out of 21 picks outperformed the S&P 500

- Average performance of picks: +49%

- Performance of S&P 500 over same time frame: +13.3%


Jeff Ubben's Picks
Long Valeant Pharmaceuticals (VRX) +77.1%
Long Moody's (MCO): +44.2%
Long CBRE (CBG): +14.3%
Long Motorola Solutions (MSI): +11.7%

He also mentioned these names: Halliburton (HAL): +42.5%, Adobe (ADBE) +41%, & C.R. Bard (BCR): +9.8%


Mick McGuire's Picks
Long Gencorp (GY): +50.5% 
Long Brookfield Residential Properties (BRP): +39.6%

Long Alexander & Baldwin (ALEX): +28.7%


Alex Roepers' Picks
Long Rockwood Holdings (ROC): +34.9%
Long Energizer (ENR): +34%
Long Clariant (CLN VX): +33.9%
Long FLSmidth (FLS DC): -5.7%
Long Joy Global (JOY): -45.1%


Whitney Tilson's Picks
Long Netflix (NFLX): +409.8%
Long Howard Hughes (HHC): +46%
Long Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A): +26.1%


Guy Gottfried's Picks
Long Canam Group (TSE:CAM): +81.2%
Long ClubLink Enterprises (TSE:CLK): +19.1%


Bob Robotti's Picks
Long Calfrac Well Services (TSE:CFW): +34.8%


As you can see, these managers' picks performed quite well on average.  And don't forget: each one of them will be presenting their new picks at this year's event in a few weeks along with plenty of other new speakers (full list of speakers here).


Hear Ubben, McGuire, Roepers & More Pitch Their Latest Ideas

Find out what stock picks these hedge fund managers will pitch at this year's Value Investing Congress in September.  Market Folly readers can save $800 off admission by registering here and using code: N13MF7  Remember, the code expires tonight!

Lee Cooperman Says Market Fairly Valued, Talks Stocks He's Been Buying (Interview)

Lee Cooperman of hedge fund firm Omega Advisors made an appearance on CNBC today to talk about what he's been buying and what his portfolio looks like.

Cooperman thinks the market is fairly valued right now and that the "Fed will have to remain friendly." He thinks the rest of the year will be determined by which valuation camp wins out.

He thinks a radical change in Fed policy or a recession would cause a drop in the market, but he's not terribly worried about either of those scenarios.

At the same time, he points out how many investors have de-risked drastically and are underinvested.  He says, "what the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end."


Stocks Cooperman Likes

Cooperman mentioned Thomas H Lee Credit (TCRD), a mezzanine lender that yields over 9% and he thinks the dividend goes higher.

We recently posted up excerpts from Omega's Q1 letter if you missed it where he talks about some of his other stock picks.

He likes to buy MLP's when they're trading below net asset value and especially if he can get a decent yield.  He thinks Linn Energy (LINE) has assets worth "in the area of 40."

Cooperman has also sued Tetragon Financial and he believes management should be barred from the industry due to 6 years of bad governance in his opinion and possibly unlawful acts.  He still thinks the stock is undervalued (he owns 14 million shares of it and he started buying in 2009 back during the financial crisis).  In sum, he feels it's solely a management problem.

The Omega Advisors man also talked about Sprint (S), saying he bought it at $2 and then again at $7 and likes that there were 2 interested parties in the company (Softbank and Dish Network), but it looks like.  He said he'll tender 80% of his position, but if it trades at the right price, he'll get back into that chunk of his position.

Cooperman has owned Dish (DISH) for six years and he said it's a mature business and he thinks it'd be worth more with Sprint than without it.  He likes management there.

The hedge fund manager noted that he's "very bottom-up" and some things Omega has been buying recently include Express Scripts (ESRX), Halliburton (HAL), Transocean (RIG), Qualcomm (QCOM), Motorola Solutions (MSI). Sandridge (SD), and Chimera (CIM).


Embedded below is the video of Cooperman's 18-minute interview:



For more on this manager, check out Lee Cooperman's thesis on Covidien (COV) and Sirius XM Radio (SIRI).

Jeff Ubben's Favorite Investment Ideas: Value Investing Congress

Continuing coverage, we're posting up notes from the Value Investing Congress.  Below are notes and the presentation of Jeff Ubben of ValueAct Capital, which manages around $8.5 billion.  His presentation was entitled 'Avoiding Complexity and VAC Circle of Life.'

Ubben's Stock Ideas

CB Richard Ellis (CBG):  Dominant market share, 50% recurring revenue, does real estate leasing.  Ubben pointed out that outsourcing is in the first innings and that the company is one of only 2 that can scale it.

Moody's (MCO):  He doesn't like traditional financials, hard to value assets, or retailers.  Yet he likes MCO.  Says high moat and limited competition, pricing power.  55% recurring revenue and a big M&A cycle coming.  Then he showed slides from the company's pitch book (Einhorn disparaged MCO earlier in the day).  Ubben said MCO is "schmuck insurance" and at the end of the day their ratings are a currency.  We previously detailed when Ubben went activist on MCO back in 2011.

Valiant Pharmaceuticals (VRX):  A branded generics play.  We recently posted up why Ruane Cunniff & Weitz Funds like VRX.

Motorola Solutions (MSI):  This is his biggest position.  He says the big thing here is to drive the payout ratio.  It's going slow and steady but he thinks there's an opportunity for them to actively help the company. 


Other stocks he mentioned:

Adobe (ADBE)

CR Bard (BCR)

Sara Lee

Halliburton (HAL)



Learning From His Mistakes:

1. Valuation.  Just math, require 10% per year.
2. Leverage.  Make sure it's appropriate for the cyclicality of the business.
3. Bad Governance.  Don't go looking for a problem to fix.
4. Complexity.  Need easily identifiable drivers.  Simpler, the better.

For more from this hedge fund manager, we've posted up Ubben on activist value investing.


Embedded below is Ubben's slideshow presentation from the Value Investing Congress: 





Check out the rest of the hedge fund presentations from the Value Investing Congress.

ValueAct Capital Goes Activist on Moody's (MCO), Buys More Motorola Solutions (MSI)

Jeff Ubben's ValueAct Capital has been quite active recently as evidenced by two 13D filings submitted to the SEC. As Ubben has explained in a previous interview, his fund employs an activist value investing strategy.

Going Activist on Moody's (MCO)

First, ValueAct has gone activist on Moody's (MCO) according to a 13D just filed. Per the filing, we learn that ValueAct has a 6.1% ownership stake in MCO with 13,866,970 shares.

At the end of the first quarter they only owned 8.2 million shares. The hedge fund firm has purchased over 5.5 million shares over the past 3 months, increasing their position size by over 67%. ValueAct were buying as recently as July 12th through 19th, adding at prices between $35-37, right where shares currently trade.

While Ubben's firm has filed a 13D signifying their activist intent with the position, the filing contains standard boilerplate about monitoring their investment and does not lay out any specific plans.

Moody's stock is interesting mainly because you have prominent investors on both sides of the table. Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway owns a significant stake in MCO but was selling some shares last year.

David Einhorn's Greenlight Capital, on the other hand, has been short MCO and laid out their short thesis here. With ValueAct now coming to the table, it's clear they intend to apply their trademark activist style. We'll see what happens.


Buying More Motorola Solutions (MSI)

Ubben's hedge fund also just filed an amended 13D with the SEC regarding shares of Motorola Solutions (MSI). They now show a 7.0% ownership stake in MSI with 23,601,000 shares.

ValueAct recently purchased over $161 million worth of MSI shares, buying in late June and early July at prices ranging from $43.95 to $45.50 per share.

As we outlined in Ubben's previous pitch on MSI, ValueAct likes Motorola Solutions due to its improving margins and the fact that it is still growing despite a downcycle. MSI came to be as a result of Motorola splitting into two separately traded entities: MSI and Motorola Mobility (MMI).


For more on ValueAct Capital, head to Ubben's interview about his fund.

Value Investing Congress Notes: Jeffrey Ubben, Claude Leveille, Michael Kao

Yesterday we posted up a summary of the Value Investing Congress' first day featuring speeches by Howard Marks, Steve Romick, Whitney Tilson and more. Here are some notes from day two of the event:

Jeffrey Ubben (ValueAct Capital): This activist investor only makes 3 or 4 new investments each year and their average holding time is 3 years. ValueAct says that their biggest advantage in the markets is their ability to truly focus on the long-term.

Ideally, they look for companies with solid cashflow during both economic prosperity and troubled times. Their activist strategy really places focus on management teams and they've been involved in numerous CEO changes. Interestingly enough, ValueAct doesn't do any shorting.

Ubben's newest position is in Motorola Solutions (MSI). Investors will recall that the former Motorola was split into two: MSI and then Motorola Mobility (MMI). ValueAct likes MSI due to its improving margins and the fact that it is still growing through a down cycle. Also, the company's cash currently represents 40% of market cap. For more on this manager, head to our post on ValueAct's activist strategy as well as some of their recent portfolio activity.



Claude Leveille (Courant Investment Management): Leveille seems to be a contrarian as he focuses on avoiding the 'herd'. We've of course talked about the hedge fund herd mentality numerous times before. Some years Leveille does as few as 3 or 4 trades, noting that he is extremely patient to wait for the fat pitches. Courant uses no leverage and only holds long positions.

One fat pitch that Courant swung at was the 10% position he took in BP (BP) after the Gulf oil spill with an average price of $31. He believed that the market overreacted to the news and has been correct as shares currently trade around ~$44 per share. We also documented how Whitney Tilson's T2 Partners also bought BP during the spill, taking advantage of the carnage (you can see their presentation on BP here). And then this year, well after the oil spill, David Einhorn still saw value as his Greenlight Capital also bought BP.

Courant aligns its interests with investors by employing a modified fee structure. Leveille says that the typical hedge fund fee structure of a 2% management fee and 20% performance fee "grossly misaligns interests." As such, he has implemented a 0.75% management fee and then a 15% performance fee over a 5% hurdle. Also, the performance fees are not extracted, but rather remain in the fund itself.

Leveille says that the best investments are the ones that are simplest to understand. This is reminiscent of Warren Buffett's approach of only buying things in your "circle of competence." Leveille listed some of his mistakes as investor such as: not concentrating positions enough, going outside of his circle of competence, selling too early, and holding too much cash.

And speaking of cash, Courant currently has around 25% of assets parked there. Leveille has been buying South Korean equities and also US large caps in the healthcare sector. He also mentioned that he currently does not have any investments in gold, bonds, or the euro. As far as inflation hedges go, he thinks that buying companies with high return on equity (ROE) can help battle the printing presses.



Michael Kao (Akanthos Capital Management): Sticking briefly with the theme of protecting from inflation, Kao recommended going long the Hong Kong dollar as a form of protection. In terms of general investment opportunity, Kao sees perpetuity options as an attractive bet, pointing to GSE preferreds as an example. He also mentioned that he learned an early lesson to be 'long optionality' as a portfolio lined with asymmetric payoffs is a solid strategy.

Akanthos Capital focuses on convertible, capital structure, and event-driven arbitrage. Prior to founding Akanthos, Kao co-founded the arbitrage strategies group at Canyon Capital Advisors. He holds a B.S. in electrical engineering and computer science from the University of California at Berkeley and an MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.



Jonathan Friedland (Porter Orlin): Friedland's presentation focused on American value investors hunting for value abroad. His first idea was Droga Raia (SAO: RAIA3), a retail drug store operator in Brazil. His second pick was Coal India (BOM: 533278), a non-coking coal and coking coal producer. Lastly, he mentioned Television Broadcasts Limited (HKG: 0511), a program production, licensing, and distribution company (it also trades as an ADR on the pink sheets as TVBCY). Friedland is the portfolio manager for Porter Orlin's Amici Global funds and previously worked at hedge fund Zweig-Dimenna.

For more coverage of this event, be sure to check out our summary of the Value Investing Congress from the first day's speakers.