Notes From Sohn New York Investment Conference 2018: Einhorn, Robbins, Gurley & More

The annual Sohn New York Investment Conference recently took place and featured top hedge fund managers sharing their latest ideas to benefit charity.  Below are notes from the event.  We've also posted up notes from the emerging manager panel, Next Wave Sohn New York.


 Notes From Sohn New York Investment Conference 2018


John Khoury, Long Pond Capital: Long D.R. Horton (DHI).  He runs a $2.5B long/short fund mainly in Real Estate.  Pitch is DHI is getting asset light by only building on developed lots instead of buying raw land, getting approvals, and building the infrastructure.  So it's an asset-light model with less debt and better ROIC, so deserves better multiple.  They are the biggest US builder based on number of units - average price is $300k, basically entry-level homes, and they built 50k last year.  What about interest rates? Says that is the biggest fear now, but rates could go up 100 bp and housing would still be affordable in relation to current income and net worth of households.  Key is rates would be coming up from such a low place. Says record low inventories.  Expects $5.50 EPS by 2020, uses 13x to get $71.50, or 63% upside.


Li Ran, Half Sky Capital.  Long: GrubHub (GRUB).  2014 IPO.  Felt like the companion pitch to the TKWY pitch in the morning at Next Wave Sohn from Alex Captain of Cat Rock Capital.  Large addressable market, positive unit economics, proof of concept, and support from restaurants.  Painted a pretty rosy picture, didn't really touch on the bear case.  She says $70B TAM on 35% penetration on 110M diners (they have 14.5M now, and many analysts think they are close to fully penetrated in the US.)  She has done surveys of restaurant managers that expect GRUB to keep growing.Price Target $160, on 15x EV/EBITDA, up 60% from here.  Previously worked at Lone Pine Capital.


Jeffrey Gundlach, DoubleLine Capital: Long XOP ETF, short Facebook (FB).  His FB pitch seemed to mainly be based on technicals.  He used the fact that FB is below the 200 day moving average at the time as his reason to be short.  He also cited 2 examples of government regulation hurting stocks - one was tobacco. (He didn't mention other examples where stocks were stronger yet, such as credit cards, banks, etc.).  He pointed out a 'head and shoulders' formation on the FB chart, which is usually bearish.       


Chamath Palihapitiya, Social Capital: Long Box (BOX).  He said BOX was an AI play, and he also said you should have an AI basket of AMZN, GOOG, BOX.  He was less enthusiastic about NVDA, because he believed GOOG's TPUs are "ten times better."  On BOX, he said it goes up 10x in 10 years, even though it has 70% of Fortune 500 already.  Core business stable, adding SaaS revenue.  Big Data/AI play, and 4.3x revenue. Only growing 20% CAGR, yet he expects multiple expansion.


Glen Kacher, Light Street Capital: Long Palo Alto Networks (PANW).  Tiger Cub 1993-1997.  He was up 11% through the end of Q1 in 2018.  He talked about cyber warfare, and how firewalls weren't enough and how you need a platform approach.  $19B market cap, biggest in Cyber, ARPU 4x the competition, which is CHKP, CSCO, FTNT, JNPR and others. Compares their attempt to shift to subscription services that ADBE has done (though he didn't mention the difference is that ADBE didn't sell hardware).  He gets a $360 price target using 10.6x Revenue.  He admits products slipped in 2017, but thinks it comes in 2018.


Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, New York Times op-ed contributor, visiting lecturer at The Wharton School and former Google data scientist.  Gave an interesting preview of his book, Everybody Lies.  Basically, a lot of people have secrets and tendencies, even though they don't admit it, but you can find out because of Google searches, which he calls "Digital Truth Serum."


Scott Ferguson, Sachem Head Capital: Long Whitbread (WTB).  Basically "Dunkin Donuts of the UK, with a budget hotel thrown in.  "Hasn't done well, they have been stuck in it for a year, he says the bad news is now priced in.


John Pfeffer, Pfeffer Capital: Long bitcoin.  The other alternative coins aren't great, stick with best of breed.  The pitch was basically that bitcoin is gold 2.0, similar to what the Winklevoss twins have argued.  Used a lot of formulas in the pitch.  Ultimately says could be a 1% chance that XBT goes to $700k if it's used as a Reserve Currency.  Maybe it's only Gold 2.0, then it's worth about $90-180k per coin, up from about $9k today.


Bill Gurley, Benchmark, with Chamath Palihapitiya:  Interesting back and forth between two talented VCs.  Gurley contemplates the idea of "peak car" ownership in the US.  3.2 cars per household now, could never get higher.  Says Uber is getting turned around, culture improving.  Slack, AirBnB are big ones to watch when they IPO.  He says autonomy could be 2 decades away, because the US is such a litigious society.  FB- he would be long, says this is not an existential threat.  AMZN- "of course, long."  GOOG - he's concerned - they have problems, although he wouldn't short (He also told an amusing story how they turned them down for VC money).  TSLA- says Musk is making it too risky to own the stock.  SoFi- "when you are handing out money there is no barrier to entry and the guy doing the highest volume usually has the loosest rule set."  HTZ- he would be short, even against Icahn.  Several issues:"disruption and debt are bad sisters," 5-15x levered, depending on whether you count the car loans.  Ride sharing is a huge substitute for rental cars in many US cities.  Systematic used car problem - if the macro gets hard at all, this business has zero flexibility due to the debt load.


Larry Robbins, Glenview Capital: Long ESRX, MCK, CVS.  Says AMZN is not going to get into their business, the PBMs aren't really gouging, they only make pennies, and drug prices have actually dropped over the last 4 years.  Says they trade at historically low multiples.  Says MCK goes up 91% in 2-3 years after the spin, and share buyback. ESRX deal with CI will happen.


Sohn Idea Contest Winner, Andrew Walker: Long LQM.  Mispricing due to taxable spin, incentive to keep price low.  This is a popular HF play right now.


Nathaniel August, Mangrove Partners: short EROS."Netflix of India" maker of Bollywood films.  He did a long presentation which focused on how he argues the company is cheating on their accounting every way possible.  He's being sued by the company.  Small cap, doesn't trade much.


David Einhorn, Greenlight Capital: Short Assured Guaranty (AGO).  Bond insurer, beset by Puerto Rico bonds and decline in overall muni bond issuance.  Business is also levered, with smaller room for error.


Be sure to also check out notes from the emerging manager segment of the conference: notes from Next Wave Sohn New York.

Notes From Sohn Conference New York 2016: Druckenmiller, Robbins, Einhorn & More

The 2016 Sohn Conference New York just concluded and featured top hedge fund managers sharing investment ideas in order to benefit the Sohn Conference Foundation which is dedicated to the treatment and cure of pediatric cancer and childhood diseases.  Here's the takeaways:


Notes From Sohn Conference New York 2016


Larry Robbins (Glenview Capital): “Get a Grip.” Theme was stocks can be a bumpy ride for investors, and hedge funds have taken a lot of hits in the press, but if you expect them to not be short-term traders, then don’t judge them by their short-term records.   He talked his book; claiming that fundamental investing is not dead.   He is long: VCA (WOOF) – Veternarian hospital, multiple has compressed as earnings have grown and “There is no Obamacare for Veternarian hospitals.” Also pitched his longstanding holding of Thermo Fisher Scientific (TMO).  Yes, it has FX issues, but it has EPS growth.  Pitched Lab Corp (LH) as well: hit by fears of new technology, but Theranos story shows that it’s not that easy to come up with new technology. On CBS (CBS): the viewing model is changing, with over-the-top (OTT), but content still has value.   Flextronics (FLEX): they got out of the low value business, but still grew revenue 3% and EPS 15% yet their P/E is only 8.5x.  The stock fell in February 19% and nobody knows why. Abbvie (ABBV): has a pipeline, Humira has IP protection, and biosimilars will take time to develop. Brookdale Senior Living (BKD): earning less, but still, oversold. Talked about Anthem (ANTM): 1.     Managed care is still a good business  2.     Cigna (CI) merger could lead to 20% accretion  3.     ANTM vs ESRX contract repricing spat could lead to more earnings  4.     Market pricing says deal breaks, he doesn’t think it will.


Carson Block (Muddy Waters):  Famed short seller says, “No such thing as alchemy in banking” and touts Bank of the Ozarks (OZRK) as a short because they’ve done a lot of aggressive construction loans and acquisitions. Best case stock re-rates due to unsustainable EPS growth rate, worst case, balance sheet pressure.


John Khoury (Long Pond Capital):  Value oriented, private equity approach. Hyatt (H) long. Says 65% upside, and low leverage gives a floor to valuation.  Admits Pritzker family controls company but says they make good capital allocation decisions. Low end, leisure hotels most vulnerable to AirBnB threat.  Hyatt has more corporate, higher end, which is relatively insulated. Not making a bullish call on all hotel stocks.  Saying Hyatt since 2010 IPO, EBITDA is up 66%, shares up only 14% while they have bought back 20% of shares outstanding.    Uses SOTP to get $79 PT, 65% upside.


Chamath Palihapitiya (Social Capital):  Silicon Valley investor. Says Amazon (AMZN) is a multi-trillion monopoly in plain sight. Walked through e-Commerce, Amazon Web Services (AWS), says this is just the beginning, that Jeff Bezos will make good investment decisions. Says AWS is not understood by the Street and could be worth a lot more. (Seems like the AWS bull case is already widely touted by AMZN bulls?) Lots of potential losers as AWS scales.


Jeff Smith (Starboard Value): Activists. In 12 years they have replaced 162 board members at 50 companies. Likes Depomed (DEPO) long, pain medication, like Oxycontin, less abuse potential. Not taking price increases. Horizon Pharma (HZNP) tried to buy them, they refused to deal. Starboard has nominated a new board- sounds like a proxy battle is brewing.   Also like Westrock (WRK), merger of Mead WestVaco and Rock Tenn.  Sounds like a commodity business, but he says it is not, and it’s still cheap, at 4.9x 2017E EBITDA. Has $71 PT, almost a double from here.


Richard Deitz (VR Capital):  They do a lot of emerging markets stuff. He says long Greek banks and Greek treasury bonds.  Went through the sordid history of bailouts, and says now things are better, the banks are finally strong, may need one more round of recapitalizations.  141% upside, 34% IRR over next 3 years.


Stanley Druckenmiller (Duquesne Family Office): In a sentence: we have low rates, high multiples on stocks, high leverage, sell stocks and everything, buy gold.  Fed is out of control, encouraging borrowing, reckless behavior. China is out of control, just buy gold.


Jeff Gundlach (DoubleLine Capital): Comedy show, with art talk in the beginning.  In other words, his usual type of presentation. Says short XLU (utilities) long REM (mortgage REITs.)  REITS are priced at 0.88x p/book, with 11% dividend, Utilities are 1.9x p/book with 3% dividend, you earn 8% net and you can lever it up 100% and earn 15%, plus the two should converge. He mocked the “low volatility” equities and showed that even utilities have had 56% drawdowns in the past. His most incendiary statement was that Donald Trump would be President, and “he’s comfortable with debt.”


Zach Schreiber (PointState Capital): He is the man that pitched oil short 2 years ago, when it was $100 per barrel.   Long USD, short the Saudi currency, he says.  He made a compelling case for why Saudi is in an “unsustainable equilibria” with lavish unfunded entitlements, unsustainable debt, and not enough currency reserves to protect their peg. Other oil producers’ currencies are down 25- 45% vs the dollar- Mexico, Norway, Russia, for example, yet the Saudi currency is unchanged.  Only costs 1.5% to put this trade on and very asymmetric pay off.


Sohn Investment Contest Winner (Mark Grow, Columbia Business School):   DXCM, Dexcom short was the pitch. Insulin device maker (continuous glucose monitoring ~ CGM) which is facing impending competition and is unable to increase price as revenue per user declines. Says stock can drop in half.


Adam Fisher (Commonwealth Opportunity Capital):  Real estate background, now a Macro guy. Says short Japanese rates, long European rates. Very compelling case for how long JGBs that yield only 30 bps have nowhere to go but up. Even a move to 40 bps yield wipes out 10 years of return.  Says maximum return for bondholders is 9% return over 30 years - that is not a CAGR of 9%, that is a TOTAL of 9%!  Huge convexity in the trade.


David Einhorn (Greenlight Capital): He pitched Caterpillar (CAT) short, says company is NOT at trough earnings yet and the mining sector will never recover to the heights of the China boom.  No catalyst on the short, other than EPS growth expected to take longer than expected.  Then he pitched General Motors (GM) as a long, admitting that US business would drop off almost 20% but the currently money losing segments in Europe and Mexico could make up for the shortfall.  Long deck with lots of charts and cartoons as usual.  GM pitch rested on low P/E of 5.6x to increase despite US EBITDA to decline.


Jim Chanos (Kynikos Associates): Got a dig in on Tesla (TSLA), which he had said he was short earlier that day on TV.  He said Elon Musk had not enough production, not enough batteries, and now not enough executives, but he pulls production forward 2 years.  “What a showman,” he said. His pitch was a complicated one, talking about weakness in South Africa, and Nigeria, which led to a short of MTN group, a wireless carrier which is also struggling with subscriber growth and declining average revenue per user (ARPU).  At $20B EV, this is a big company that he says is not cheap.

John Khoury's Sohn Canada Presentation: Long Forest City Enterprises

We're posting up notes from the Sohn Canada Investment Conference 2015 (Capitalize For Kids.)  Next up is John Khoury from Long Pond Capital.  He pitched a long of Forest City Enterprises (FCE/A).

John Khoury's Capitalize For Kids Presentation

-    Questions to ask:
o    Is it cheap?
o    Why is it cheap/misunderstood?
o    Why will it cease to be cheap?
o    What is the downside protection?

-    Long Forest City Enterprises (FCE/A): 40% discount to NAV, 70% upside potential
-    Was over levered in 2008 and it dropped 90%.
-    In 2011, FCE/A brought in a non-family member CEO (family owns 500million in stock)
-    They own office, retail and multifamily properties
-    Office: 8.3million leasable area, 38 properties, focused in NYC, Boston and Washington -    Retail: > $500 spsf
-    Multifamily: 95% occupancy
-    Large development pipelines, often a place for undervaluation as sell side does not attempt to value these projects
-    Reasons for discount: not a REIT, has non-core assets (complicated BS), lower operating margins and high leverage
-    Catalysts: becoming a REIT in 2016, selling non-core assets and deleveraging.
-    The stock is up 7% since 2011, underperformance of 35% behind REITs in the US.
-    With the value of margin expansion and development properties included the NAV will be approximately $35/share. Trading at $20 currently.
-    Only real estate company over $5Bn that’s not a REIT, should cause appreciation upon conversion as indexes and ETFs will need to include it
-    Non-core assets such as Brooklyn Nets and Barclays center will be sold
-    Have ~$600MM of assets left to sell
-    Cost cutting should add $35-45MM savings per year, adds 5% to NAV
-    They see apartments adding margin as low hanging fruit
-    Are currently deleveraging from 10x currently to 7.5x in net debt/EBITDA
-    Projected asset sales, conversion of convertible debt and NOI growth will help to bring down leverage
-    Downside protection: high quality real estate, non-recourse debt, incentivized board and management team


Be sure to check out the rest of the presentations from the Capitalize For Kids Conference.

Next Wave Sohn Conference Notes: John Khoury, Jason Karp, Nitin Saigal, Ethan Devine, Will Snellings

The 19th annual Sohn Investment Conference in New York, produced in partnership with Bloomberg LINK, has completed and we've posted notes from the event.  This year though the event featured a new addition: Next Wave Sohn.  This mini-conference was held before the main Sohn event and featured emerging managers pitching their latest investment ideas.  Here are those presentations.


Next Wave Sohn Conference Notes 2014


John Khoury. Long Pond Capital 

Idea: American Homes for Rent (AMH).  REIT, buys houses, fixes them up and rents them out.   Debate is whether it is a good business or not. Bears say it is impossible to manage thousands of homes efficiently. Bull case: 95% occupancy, length of stay 2x that of apartments NOI margins at or higher than apartments. Doing securitization now at L+1.66 Levered up- "you want to own an asset when it begins to be securitized."

Currently 2.7% FCF yield, but with 45% net leverage get 7.0% FCF yield. "REITs do not trade at 7% FCF yields."   Apartment REITS trade at 5%, if this gets there, stock has $23 PT, 40% upside. "Free call option" is consolidation, they could roll up other businesses.  Still only 20% of 1% of the total market. $3T market opportunity.  Founder and management own $1B of the stock. Unlevered now, so limited downside if they are wrong.


Jason Karp.  Tourbillon Capital

Idea: Ctrip (CTRP) - Tourbillon: looks for durable themes, ideas that there is a different way to look at it (he's formerly of SAC). Chinese travel one of the highest probability growth themes on the planet. $7.5B market cap, $800M cash,  $48 now, LT price target $115-170.  Trades at 17-25x p/e.

China is largest global spender on international tourism, but low per capita. Thesis is travel spend per person will catch up with other countries. China is only 50% internet penetration, but already has 600M users, double the US population.  If CTRP just holds share, the revenue goes up 7.7x . They have 40% market share now. People always mismodel or underestimate the upside.

In 2009, sell side thought PCLN would do $9.19 eps in 2013, they actually did $41.00. PCLN went from $5.5B to $61.7B, up 10x in 5 years. CTRP is on similar trajectory, but their core market is growing faster.  Controversy: margins have declined because they are investing in their business in a battle with eLong. Mobile room nights went from 0% to 35% since 2012.  Problem is operating margins from 2007-2011 were 40%.  Now in the 20s, but he says it will expand back up since they will not be able to spend so much on the business simply because the topline is so big.


Ethan Devine. Co-PM of Indus Capital

Idea: Goldcrest. Listed in Japan.  Largest condominium developer in Japan. Trades at 0.50x book.  Condos in Tokyo.  Thesis is stock is cheap, despite how hot real estate is in Tokyo.  He focuses on global special situations.


Nitin Saigal. CIO at Kora Management

Idea: Bharti Infratel.  Originally thought it was a great short:  Unattractive Industry, Regulatory uncertainty, hurdles to scale, capital allocation concerns.   Bull case:   There is competition and was overdevelopment in the past, but supply has rationalized. 900M cell phones in India, only 90M smartphones. Data demand story- like the US, China. India just did a spectrum auction.  $7B market cap, 80k towers, 25% market share- has scale- nationwide tower network. Capital allocation has gotten better- dividend payout increased, disclosure better. Costs $50k to build a tower, one tenant 7.5% ROI, 3 tenants $15,500 annual revenue 25% ROIC.  Thinks it should trade  at 330 rupees/share, trades at 6% FCF yield, growing 15% per year, TEV/EBITDA 11X.  Kora is an emerging markets fund, based in NYC, but offices in China, India, and Sao Paolo  


Will Snellings. Founder of Marianas Fund. 

Idea: Jet Blue (JBLU). Two big changes: consolidation- top 5 players control 85% of capacity.  Cost curve shift- Southwest was destabilizing the industry, taking share because they had a cost advantage- which they no longer have. So industry is still below mid-cycle economics. Jet Blue has youngest fleet in industry- 8 years, low cost position and low ticket prices.  Has 7.5% of industry capacity- small enough to grow without disrupting industry stability.  2013: $758M op cash flow vs $4.5B EV, $2.8B market cap.  JBLU has materially underperformed the industry over last 2 years.  He worked at Ospraie while setting up his own fund.  Likes structural changes in businesses that make a bad industry become a very good one.


We've also now posted up notes from the main Sohn conference as well, featuring David Einhorn, Bill Ackman, Paul Tudor Jones and more.  So be sure to check that out as well.