Jeffrey Gundlach: Buy Interest Rate Volatility on the Long Bond (Sohn New York Conference)

We're posting up notes from the Sohn New York Investment Conference.  Next up is Jeffrey Gundlach of DoubleLine Capital who talked about markets.


Jeff Gundlach's Sohn New York Presentation

•    Public debt about to explode and interest costs will explode. Especially once we hit a recession
•    He thinks there is more of a chance of recession
•    Interest rates will see more volatility
•    Fed Chair Powell has completely changed his tune and is moving towards MMT
•    Buy interest rate volatility on the long bond. Thinks volatility could double


Be sure to check out the rest of the Sohn New York conference presentations.

Jeff Gundlach: Watch 2,130 Level of S&P 500

DoubleLine Capital's Jeff Gundlach was interviewed on CNBC yesterday and here's his thoughts:


And although he's a fixed income manager, Gundlach often opines on the stock market and this time was no different.  He said that, "I would turn particularly negative if the S&P closed twice below 2,130."

He notes that the Fed wants to raise rates in December once the election ends.  He also mentioned he's turned negative on most assets since July.

Gundlach said he doesn't think the election is all that important because he feels that both candidates would be 'caught up in the trend' of fiscal stimulus.

Embedded below is video of Gundlach's CNBC interview:

Jeff Gundlach's Appearance on Wall Street Week

The classic show Wall Street Week has recently been rebooted by Skybridge Capital's Anthony Scaramucci.  The first episode recently aired and featured DoubleLine Capital's Jeff Gundlach.

In it, Gundlach talks about his specialty: fixed income markets.  He pointed out that in 2018-2019, there will be tons of bond maturities.

He's also worried about junk bonds:  "One thing that I think is really important that nobody talks about or has been thinking about is the entire life of the junk bond market has been secularly declining interest rates."

On what will happen to the junk bond market when interest rates go up, Gundlach proclaimed: "I think that's the next bond market crisis."

On interest rates, Gundlach said, "I think the probability of a rate hike in June is very, very low." He also thinks it could be possible that the Fed doesn't raise rates at all in 2015.  He emphasized that the Fed is data dependent and so the data will need to give them a reason to act.

Embedded below is the video of Jeff Gundlach's appearance on Wall Street Week, which starts around the 3:30 minute mark:

Jeff Gundlach: Short Homebuilders (Sohn Conference Presentation)

We're posting up notes from the Sohn Investment Conference in New York, produced in partnership with Bloomberg LINK.  Next up is Jeffrey Gundlach of DoubleLine who argued that housing is declining and said to short homebuilders.


Jeff Gundlach's Sohn Conference Presentation

Pitch: Single Family Housing recovery is not happening.  Household debt fell only because mortgage credit dropped due to default.  Housing market has been supported by a surge in second lien financing and cash transactions.  Cash transactions are 50% of deals, up from 20% in pre-2008.  Existing home sales and new ones are weak. Housing starts have improved, but still below 1M per year.

Housing affordability isn't really that good now if you look at the long-term charts. There are no first-time buyers. Household formation is depressed. Young people are staying with parents much longer and have higher unemployment rates. Student loan debt is higher, another headwind. People moving rate has been in decline for decades. Still 19.4% negative equity nationally.

Generational preference shift - young people prefer to rent. He says home ownership rate will DECLINE further, not rebound like most people think. Says the rest of his career we will NEVER see 1.5M housing starts in a year again. IDEA:  Short XHB. 

Be sure to check out the rest of the presentations from the 2014 Sohn Investment Conference.

Jeff Gundlach's Presentation at Invest For Kids Chicago

Next up in our notes from Invest For Kids Chicago 2013 is Jeff Gundlach of DoubleLine Capital.


Jeff Gundlach's Presentation at Invest For Kids Chicago 2013

•    QE with its monumental scale and scope tries to
•    FDR is a parallel to Obama.  Government – federal, state, and local – costs too much…  New Deal
•    FDR inauguration in a banking panic
•    FDR blamed bankers immediately
•    FDR sent congress a record numbers of bills
•    FDR “try something” & the new slogan is “whatever it takes”
•    Record corporate profits – will they catch the attention of the tax man?
•    FDR raised the marginal tax rate to 100% (500,000 equivalent in today’s dollars)
•    Dynamite shack – sounds like quantitative easing
o    For now the dynamite keeps getting stuffed into the plastic shack
•    Synonym for early is wrong
•    Interest rates are low but don’t have to rise in the near term
•    FDR confiscated gold and the Fed now explains things are “the policy”
•    Speculation at the expense of savers
•    US margin debt is borrowing at the purpose of speculation – mirrors S&P 500
•    Currently alarmingly high
•    Lunch atop a skyscraper
•    Amazon with no earnings, Netflix, Tesla
•    Advice: do not get sucked in to QE and remember ocean of liquidity and risk manage accordingly 


Check out the rest of the hedge fund presentations from Invest For Kids Chicago here.

Jeff Gundlach's Sohn Conference Presentation: Short French Bonds, Short Chipotle, Long Gold

We're posting up notes from the Ira Sohn Conference 2013 in New York.  Next up is a summary of the presentation from Jeffrey Gundlach of DoubleLine.  He talked a lot about quantitative easing and various other topics.


Gundlach's Talk on Quantitative Easing

He thinks quantitative easing will stay for a long while for many months if not years into the future.  It's a way to keep interest expense low and can also generate lower insurance premiums so he would avoid insurance companies.

Just because rates are low now doesn't mean they have to rise quickly.  Timing is everything in investing.  The Fed mentions the downside of QE just "so they can say they talked about it."  He said this isn't the beginning of a new bull market.  If you want to play QE via stocks, do it in Japan.

Gundlach said that Cyprus' taking deposits worries him as a precedent has been set so he said to avoid sticking money in the bank.  If you want to play QE in Europe, just short French bonds. 

He points to Treasuries not being a crowded trade.  Asking the audience to raise their hands if they own them, very few hands were raised.  He says QE is a put on Treasuries. 

Gundlach's picks:  Short Chipotle (CMG) ~ "gourmet burrito" is an oxymoron, short French bonds, gold.  Avoid bank deposits.

For more on this manager, we've also highlighted some of Gundlach's previous thoughts on holding cash here.


Check out the rest of the hedge fund presentations from the event: notes from Ira Sohn Conference 2013.

Jeff Gundlach: Investors Should Hold Cash

DoubleLine Capital's CEO Jeff Gundlach recently appeared on Bloomberg to talk about how to invest in this environment and claimed that "investors should be holding cash."  Below are some excerpts from his interview as well as the video.

He noted that risk assets have diminishing returns and that he didn't see much value in the US stock market and said to act cautiously in the US bond market.


On how to trade this environment:

"I think that investors should be looking for lower prices on most risk assets in these developed countries with the exception of Japan... investors should be looking for the potential inflationary consequences of all this money printing exercise and the place to look for that is Japan."


On whether investors should get more disciplined and look at fundamentals:

"The fundamentals are always important but it does get trumped by policy decisions when policy decisions are so radical as has been the case in recent years…There seems to be diminishing returns on the various rounds of quantitative easing. It's almost like a half-life of a radioactive particle. The first quantitative easing brought 50%, the second brought a little more than half of that, the third half again, the fourth less than half again. It just seems that the idea of a Pavlovian reaction when you see quantitative easing that you should go out and buy risk assets--it has worked four times, but it doesn't seem like you are getting much bang for your buck any more…I would point out that gold, for example, hasn't done much of anything in the last couple of rounds of quantitative easing. It seems that the fundamentals are starting to exert themselves more powerfully against the backdrop of endless quantitative easing, so it's possible that the market support is close to finding its limit. This is why I think that investors should be holding cash and buying risk assets at lower prices once the fundamentals assert themselves."


On where to put money now:

"You've got to survive with virtually no return if that's the way you look at things. I actually recommend that for many investors. I think the small amount of money that you might make by trying to push it here as we get closer and closer to the end game where this thing might tail out--the amount of money you might make will be dwarfed by the amount of money you might lose when things reprice lower. Put it another way, if you just stay in cash and earn a small return or stay in a low risk investment and earn a middling single digit return--the money you might be able to make as we move into late 2013 or early 2014 with repricing, the amount of money you might make if you are able to deploy the money at that point will make all the difference. People always want investments to go up like a line…That's just not reality. You make 80% of your money in 20% of the time in investing and you have to be patient…I see some values in some of these foreign markets. I don't see a lot of value in the U.S. stock market and I think you have to play it safe in the U.S. bond market with funds that are really dedicated to having low volatility." 


Embedded below is the video of Gundlach's interview with Bloomberg TV:

Jeffrey Gundlach's Ira Sohn Presentation

We're posting up notes from the Ira Sohn Conference.  DoubleLine Capital's Jeffrey Gundlach gave a presentation on going long: IBEX, 1 year LIBOR, natural gas, and cash.  Short: SPX, Nordstrom (JWN), Apple (AAPL), and 2 year swaps.  He previously ran TCW's bonds but manages $34 billion at DoubleLine now.

"Investment Cubism 2012" Building portfolios that can handle seismic shifts.

Quotes Marx about fight between oppressed and oppressor. Non-cooperation causes bear markets. Invention is a key driver of economic growth, but it alters the existing balance. Massive buildup of worldwide debt. EZ massive unemployment. Spain now 22.9%. Germany has dropped, now only 5.6%. Europe borrowed a lot of money, and gave it all to Germany. Youth under 25 Spain unemployment at 50%. Art sales show that the very wealthy are moving out of currency, into hard assets.

Mocks "Growth plus prosperity" talk. Tax rates on the top have actually dropped over time. Middle class has actually had a tax increase. Debt limit is just a gimmick. 2007 severity in job losses, taking twice as long to get back.


LONG: IBEX, 1 year LIBOR, natural gas, cash

SHORT: SPX, Nordstrom (JWN), Apple (AAPL), 2 year swaps


GOOG vs AAPL chart overlay. "Apple shoeshine boy" moment. Natural gas "the anti-Apple" long, he says. JWN- says "wants vs needs" retailing. Doesn't like the chart. Long IBEX, the hedge for inflationary money printing in Europe. Short SPX against the IBEX. Doesn't like SPX chart. Put 100 bills in cereal boxes, no one will steal them. The idea is invest the portfolio as a whole, don't just take one his ideas in isolation.


P.S. - Don't miss other presentations from David Einhorn, John Paulson, Bill Ackman & more: notes from Ira Sohn Conference 2012.