Warren Buffett Interview: Bought More Apple, Berkshire Buys Back Stock

Warren Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway was just interviewed by Becky Quick on CNBC.  Here's a summary of his thoughts:

He notes he bought a little more Apple (AAPL) recently.  He doesn't care about one quarter or one year's worth of iPhones sold.  He'd obviously like to see each product cycle do well, but he notes he's mainly viewing the company as an indispensible utility.  He argues that the value you get on a daily basis for only $1000 (price of an iPhone) it's a no-brainer.  People are so attached to their devices and use them for so many different things.  He doesn't own an iPhone but has an iPad and uses it frequently.  Would love to see the stock pullback as he could buy more or the company could buyback more stock at cheaper levels.

Berkshire hasn't been buying more airline stocks mainly because he doesn't want to go over the 10% ownership threshold in them, and he has to trim them if the companies are buying back stock.

Buffett said that consumer packaged goods are a good business from a return on tangible assets perspective.  While he acknowledged the businesses have seen increased competition and changing consumer tastes, they're still a good place to be.  He likes brands but is aware it's a tougher environment than it used to be, especially with the stocks much higher these days.  When asked about Campbells (CPB), he said Berkshire wouldn't be interested but he couldn't really speak for Kraft Heinz (KHC).  He said it's very hard to offer a premium for a packaged goods company.

Berkshire bought a little bit of its stock recently, Buffett notes.  They removed the previous restriction of a multiple of book value.  They're now looking at it from an intrinsic business value perspective.

"The economy since the fall of 2009 has gotten progressively better, but it started from a very low base.  We've had 9 full years of improvement in business. Business is good, across the board."

Noted that stocks are better than bonds and real estate.

He's seeing inflation in input costs on raw materials.  It's hard to say if that's due to the tariff situation or other factors, but he noted it increased certainly over the last year and particularly after the trade war situation.  He specifically noted steel, building materials, as well as paint cans as areas where they're seeing increased costs.

On Fed chairman Jay Powell, Buffett likes him and thinks he's doing a good job and will do what's best for the economy.

Warren Buffett CNBC Interview: Summary & Transcript

CNBC's Becky Quick interviewed Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett on a range of topics yesterday.  Below is a summary of noteworthy comments and a link to the full transcript.


On tax reform:  "It's a huge tailwind. And it's particularly a tailwind if you've got-- particularly for companies that have had lots of depreciation and taken bonus depreciation up front. So it's a big item-- there. Not as many companies have lots of appreciation and marketable securities, but it's a big item for those that do."


On market valuation:  "I mean, it--in fact, I-- the market-- the stock market relative to the long-term bond market-- people have free choices, pretty much, if they're going to be in marketable securities. They can own reasonably long-term bonds, they can own equities, or they can keep it in short-term cash equivalents. And--- if-you had to choose between buying long-term bonds or equities-- I would choose equities in a minute now ...

That doesn't mean I think the stock market is gonna go up or anything else. But if- I were going to own a 30-year government bond or own equity for 30 years, I think equities will considerably outperform that 30-year bond over the 30 years. I don't know what they're gonna do in any day or week or month ...

In-- so far this year we've been-- a net buyer, although we sold-- a chunk of Phillips to get below 10%"


On whether he would buy any parts of General Electric (GE):  "If we like the business and the price was right, we could write a check for cash. And that would apply to GE. They've got a few big businesses. I don't think they want to sell them, but they have some smaller units that they're interested in selling. But we're always in the market for a big business that we can understand and that we like, and we think that we've got the management for and so on."


On Buffett's favorite stock, besides Berkshire:  "Well, if you look at our holdings, you would assume that we like them in the order in which they rank by dollar value of holdings. But if you look at them in terms of recent purchases, you know, over the last year, we've bought more Apple than anything else ... I haven't told you what I might have been buying in the last week. Or month"


Shoutout to CNBC for asking the question we submitted on Twitter via the #AskWarren hashtag:  Has Buffett ever disagreed with any of Todd (Combs) or Ted's (Weschler) investments, and why?



"Yeah, well, they make their own decisions, 100% and they each manage $12 billion or $13 billion now. Well, they started actually, I think when Todd came about a year ahead of Ted. And I think maybe it was $2 billion, but it has increased at various points and then they've earned a lot of money for Berkshire, which builds up for them, too. There's certainly – they've done things I wouldn't have done. But I've done things they wouldn't do, too. I mean, I want them to figure out their own. The choices – they are good at managing money, and they've got the advantage of managing smaller sums than I'm running. But they've got the disadvantage of running quite a bit larger sums than most people run. I mean, it gets more difficult with size. But they not only have done a good job of managing the money and trusted them. But they've contributed to Berkshire in just dozens of ways. They were sensational hires."

Becky Quick then followed up and asked if he talks to Todd/Ted about investments beforehand:

"No, not ahead a time. And there's a number of them I haven't talked with them at all. I couldn't even – I couldn't name three quarters of their portfolio. I couldn't tell you the amounts. I don't remember that well. But I've gotten ideas from them. But they take on other tasks. I mean, Todd is on the health care situation. He's there on Saturday. I was there on Saturday. He's there all day talking to people around the country in terms of looking for the right CEO and that sort of thing. They are enormous contributors to Berkshire."


On owning Samsung in the past:  "I don't own them, and Berkshire doesn't own them now. But Berkshire has owned Samsung. It doesn't get reported in our 13F.  But I think I'm right on that. I'm 99% sure. And so we bought some when Samsung was at about a million yuan – you got to divide that by something over 1,000 – we bought a reasonable amount. We did sell it when it went up. It's higher than this now. It went up to 1.8 million, or something. I think it's around 2 million, 2.3 million or 2.4 million. The yuan went in our favor a little bit too. So we did a little bit better in dollars."


On why he sold IBM in favor of buying more Apple (AAPL):  "Well I was wrong on – at least I felt I was wrong on IBM. Now, I may have been wrong when I sold it, too. But I certainly was wrong when I bought it. And I've felt that Apple has an extraordinary consumer franchise. Apple's a different kind of business than IBM. They're both tech, obviously, in a major way. And they even have a joint venture, you know, on some things. But I think I understand consumer behavior perhaps better than I do the tech business. It wouldn't take much to beat it. And I liked it, I like Tim Cook very much. I like their policies. I see how strong that ecosystem is. It's to an extraordinary degree. I mean, I look at my grandchildren, my great grandchildren and everybody in the office, I mean, their families. I talk to the people at the Furniture Mart when the ten hadn't arrived, nobody goes over to, you know, buy an Android. I mean, you are very, very, very locked in at least psychologically and mentally, to the product you're using. I mean, you got all kinds of stuff up on there. It's a very sticky product."


On the airline industry (he owns stakes in AAL, UAL, DAL, LUV): "It's-- a business that's-- always subject to somebody doing something very dumb competitively. And—-- they've done it a lot in the past. There was more chance of them doing it when there were seven of 'em than the big ones, than-- than four. I mean, the industry was suicidally competitive for decades. I mean, they net lost money-- and-- while they were growing like crazy in units. And I was on the board of U.S. Air so I saw how it all happened. And it can turn into fierce competitive battles that'll wipe out earnings. Or it can be a business that's more decent, but still subject to lots of competition. And-- it's really hard to know, you know, for sure how it will develop. It's-- not risk free in their competition at all. In-- in the railroad business, all the tracks have been pretty much laid and all of that. So that settled into a business. Now, it's regulated and means that your earnings, you know, can only-- you're a common carrier. And-- many places, you compete with another railroad, and other places, you don't. And there're different rules that apply even in terms of pricing in those cases. But it's a perfectly decent business. It will lose volume in coal over time. And that's an important product. But it'll probably gain in other areas. So it's-- it's two different animals."


On stocks and volatility:  "Well, some people should not own stocks at all because they just get too upset with price fluctuations. If you're going to do dumb things because a stock goes down, you shouldn't own a stock at all ... But some people are not actually emotionally or psychologically fit to own stocks. But I think more of them would be if you get educated on what you're really buying, which is part of a business. And the longer you hold stocks, the less risky they become, whereas the longer the maturity of a bond, the more risky it becomes."

Here's a link to the full CNBC Warren Buffett interview transcript.

And for even more, be also sure to check out Warren Buffett's 2017 annual letter.

Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger & Bill Gates Interview

Becky Quick on CNBC recently sat down with Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffett for a one-on-one interview and then was later joined by Charlie Munger and Bill Gates for a discussion on a myriad of topics.  Here are some highlights:

Warren Buffett's Interview

-  Talked about technology stocks a lot at Berkshire's annual meeting.  Munger said they missed Google (GOOGL) and Buffett thought they should have had some insight into it because GEICO was a heavy user of it for advertising and paying per click.  He wasn't sure if there was a first mover advantage or if increased competition was going to come along (Bing, etc) or if there were going to be technological advances he couldn't understand.  "If I were forced to buy it or short it, I'd buy it.  Same with Amazon."

-  Apple (AAPL) shares were much more reasonable compared to future earnings so that's why he bought that tech stock.  Likens the consumer nature of the product as a way for him to easily tell what's going on with customer preference.  "You can't move people by price in the smartphone market remotely like you can in appliances ... the loyalty is huge."  Notes that most items are price sensitive (TVs, etc) but AAPL's products don't seem to be.

-  Recently highlighted how Buffett sold some IBM and he said that they've experimented with IBM's Watson at GEICO.  In that space you have to worry about somebody coming in and jumping ahead with the utility.  "The biggest value will come when it replaces human labor." 

-  Doesn't make trades on the basis of political election outcomes, doesn't look much at quarterly GDP numbers.

-  Railroad figures show the economy is doing 'OK', 2% rate or so.  Natural gas has gone up in price so that dictates the use of goal a lot of places, so coal shipments are up the most % wise. 

- Housing market is getting better, but not 'booming.'   Berkshire owns Clayton homes (manufactured homes), Acme brick, Berkshire Hathaway realty, Shaw flooring, Benjamin Moore paints. 

-  "Credit card volume will tell you a lot about the consumer., what their attitude is."

-  "Packaged goods has generally been a very profitable business."

-  Largest investor in four major airlines (UAL, DAL, AAL, LUV): Airlines have found a very high percentage of customers are price conscious.  Yet most consumers are captive to whatever airline flies the route they need to take.  Thinks consolidation of the industry has helped and it's no longer a 'suicidal business.'

-  "I have no idea what the market will do in the short-term."  They've got $95 billion sitting around and it doesn't make him happy that he's not earning anything on it.  Says it's getting tougher to buy businesses these days, "Once you buy a business, the business doesn't know what you paid for it."  "It's a very tough period to allocate capital."

- Says he's still cheap but not as cheap as he used to be. "You can afford to overpay a bit for a really fine business depending on your degree of certainty that it's a really fine business."

- Buffett says one thing he mentioned at the annual meeting no one really appreciated: that the five largest businesses today by market value ($2.5 trillion or more) you could run those businesses with no equity capital.  That's a completely different world than the past when industrial giants needed a lot of capital.

-  Didn't buy Amazon (AMZN) because of "stupidity."  Says he was impressed by Bezos long ago but didn't think he could pull off what he has.  On shares currently: "It's a big valuation ... I'm not buying any.  These are powerful ideas with big potential and he's executed."

-  One essential factor that determines what he thinks about market valuations: "The most important item over time in valuation is obviously interest rates."  "Anybody that prefers bonds to stocks today is making a big mistake.  It's ridiculous for somebody to buy a 30 year bond at these rates."

-  "Every smart guy is tempted by leverage, and some of them are broken by it."



Then at the end of Buffett's 1-on-1 interview, Charlie Munger and Bill Gates also joined Buffett to talk about healthcare, tax reform, mistakes they've made, and other topics.


Embedded below is the video of Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, and Bill Gates's interview on CNBC:



For more from these investors, be sure to check out Warren Buffett's recommended reading list as well as Charlie Munger's favorite books.

Bill Miller Wealthtrack Interview

Bill Miller recently appeared on Consuelo Mack's WealthTrack for an interview.  He's beat the S&P 500 for 15 consecutive years when he worked at Legg Mason.  Then he had a few years of underperformance and has come back with Miller Value Partners, an independent investment advisory firm. 

Here are some of the key takeaways:

-  Looks for stocks trading at a discount to intrinsic business value (present value of future free cashflow): looks for business that are naturally cash generative and buys them when free cashflow yield is 50% or more higher than the market.

-  Noted that typical value investors look for accounting value versus economic value.  Cites them missing Amazon (AMZN) as an example over the past 20 years.

-  Miller looks for "companies that can earn above their cost of capital through an economic cycle."

-  "Where you can really make significant amounts of money is when an industry changes from being one that doesn't generate economic value to one that does."  One example of this he cites is the airlines now.  Now they've had positive cashflow ever since 2009.  He owns Delta (DAL), United (UAL), American Airlines (AAL).  Consolidation has played a huge role.  As we've noted before, Warren Buffett is also now a large shareholder of airlines.

- Also owns Valeant Pharmaceuticals (VRX) equity in one fund and the bonds in another fund.  Notes that Bill Ackman has sold his VRX position.  Miller was buying around $30.  Thinks "perceived risk is way underpriced to real risk."  Thinks it could be a $50-60 stock in 3 or 4 years.

-  Miller thinks Apollo Group (APO) and Carlyle Group (CG) are cheap.  We've highlighted how Tiger Global has been buying APO as well.

-  Miller doesn't think the market is overvalued on a relative or absolute basis.  Especially compared to other asset classes it's cheap.

-  Likes Intrexon (XON), leading company in synthetic biology (think re-writing DNA). 

-  If he had to pick one stock to own for the long-term he'd pick Amazon (AMZN).  Compared it to Alphabet (GOOGL) and Facebook (FB) and their core business is the $500-600 billion ad market which is growing 5% a year.  Whereas AMZN's core business is retail.  US retail alone is $5 trillion so the total addressable market is huge.  Not to mention Amazon Web Services, etc.

Embedded below is the video of Bill Miller's Wealthtrack interview:



For more recent Wealthtrack interviews, we've also posted Consuelo Mack's interview with Joel Greenblatt.

What We're Reading ~ 4/5/17

Modern Monopolies: What It Takes to Dominate the 21st Century [Alex Moazed]

How moats make a difference [Intrinsic Investing]

Boyar Research's thesis on QVC and Madison Square Garden [Barrons]

Autonomous cars and second order consequences [Benedict Evans]

The hardest question in portfolio management [A Wealth of Common Sense]

Diversification, adaptation, and stock market valuations [Philosophical Economics]

Noise: how to overcome the high, hidden cost of inconsistent decisions [Harvard Biz Review]

How Domino's built a $9 billion empire [Bloomberg]

How do winning consumer goods companies capture growth? [McKinsey]

Airlines make more money selling miles than seats [Bloomberg]

At Blackrock, machines are rising over managers to pick stocks [NYTimes]

What's next for malls? [Fashionista]

Andrew Ng on what AI can and can't do [Harvard Business Review]

Margin debt hit all time high in February [WSJ]

The 1% rule: why a few people get most of the rewards [James Clear]

What We're Reading ~ 1/25/17

US investors favored passive funds over active by a record margin in 2016 [Morningstar]

The best investment writings of 2016 [Meb Faber]

On 3G Capital and the Kraft Heinz merger [Fortune]

A chat with Daniel Kahneman [Collaborative Fund]

Lunch with Bill Gates [FT]

What is your edge? [Base Hit Investing]

On expected risk [A Wealth of Common Sense]



Simon Property Group fights to reinvent the shopping mall [Fortune]

Facebook: Inside Instagram's reinvention [Recode]

Amazon expands into ocean freight [WSJ]

A pitch on Bolloré [Greenwood Investors]

Trump team compiles infrastructure priority list [McClatchy]

New FCC chief wants to destroy net neutrality [CNBC]

The great A.I. awakening [NYTimes]

Summary of some of the latest tech products featured at CES [Learning By Shipping]

Americans use debit cards twice as much as credit [Marketwatch]

China's biggest messaging app is on a collision course with Apple [TechInAsia]

How Social Cash made WeChat the app for everything [Fast Company]

When the Chinese come out to shop [OliverWyman]

How Netflix lost big to Amazon in India [Backchannel]

The best and worst airlines of 2016 [WSJ]

Carlos Slim's profit margins are right where Mexico wants them [Bloomberg]

Reasons to buy bonds in 2017 [Peter Lazaroff]

Bill Miller Thinks We're in a Secular Bull Market, Talks Stocks He Likes

Value investor Bill Miller of LMM Investments appeared on CNBC today and thinks we're in a secular bull market that began in March 2009.

"Bonds are unattractive in my view.  I believe we hit a double bottom in bonds in the summertime... 35 year bull market in bonds is over."

"As long as stocks yield more than bonds, stocks are attractive."

Miller is fully invested and says, "Cash earns zero, why do I want something that earns zero?"

He likes One Main Financial (OMF), bought in the spring, still thinks it's 'crazy cheap.'  Thinks smaller financials are attractive, mentioned MGIC (MTG) and Radian (RDN), mortgage insurers. 

Miller also likes big financials as well: Bank of America (BAC), Citigroup (C), JPMorgan (JPM).  Value investor Rich Pzena also likes financials, as he mentioned in his interview last week.

Bill Miller has owned Amazon (AMZN) since the IPO and still owns it today.  He says that was one of the best decisions he's ever made, and one of the worst has been selling any shares of it.  It's his largest position and says people have misunderstood AMZN's valuation from the beginning.  "Amazon's total addressable market is just so much bigger than any other company on earth."

He also talked about Twitter (TWTR), saying he sold half of his call options when it was in the $20s, and thinks it's a unique asset as a 'network of interests.'  He thinks they need a fulltime CEO and suggested they could perhaps switch to a paid monthly platform.  "We own Twitter because of the optionality."  He think it has a floor of $15-16.

Miller also owns various homebuilders such as Lennar (LEN) and TriPointe (TPH).  Feels builders will grow double-digits for the next few years.

On airlines, Miller still owns them and says Delta (DAL) is trading at a 15% free cash flow yield and will generate $5 billion in free cash and return 75% of that to shareholders.  He likes United (UAL) with more upside as the margins are depressed and they've got new management there.

Miller also commented on former hedge fund hotel Valeant Pharmaceuticals (VRX):  "It's probably the most toxic stock in the overall market.  It's blown a hole in Ackman's portfolio, it cost Bob Goldfarb, one of the best investors in our generation his job.  Our cost is from $20-35, we just bought more last week." 

He says they have 2 issues: the legacy issue of transitioning new leadership and then the debt load.  He thinks it doubles in 3 years as the company has a lot of cashflow and will look to sell non-core assets.

He also talked about Netflix (NFLX), noting it's an incredible company and he's owned it twice before, but thinks it's expensive now.  Also thinks Tesla (TSLA) is expensive and most energy plays are as well, especially the integrated players.

For more from prominent investors, check out David Tepper's recent interview, as well as Keith Meister's thesis on YUM China. 

Jamie Dinan Likes Airlines, Hertz & Sprint/T-Mobile: Interview

York Capital's James Dinan appeared on CNBC today and talked about his latest market views.

He said they own most of the major airlines and notes these companies are now being run like businesses and can make money even at $95 oil.

He specifically mentioned American Airlines (AAL) and thinks there's great optionality here as they've merged with US Air and will have a great management team.  While some of these mergers can be rocky at the start, he thinks the value will be realized.  This has been a big hedge fund trade as of late with the likes of David Tepper and Julian Robertson also being involved in many of these names.

Dinan's biggest position is Hertz (HTZ) and he says it's a consolidation play as they'll see cost savings and revenue synergies from the Dollar Thrifty merger as well as fleet rationalization.  A few quarters ago, our Hedge Fund Wisdom newsletter flagged this popular trade and posted a write-up on Avis Budget (CAR), another beneficiary of the consolidation.

York thinks that this environment is great for event-driven investing, especially due to low interest rates.  Dinan also sees earnings going up next year and thinks companies will continue to do buybacks.  He also said he likes Sprint (S) and T-Mobile (TMUS).


Here are the videos of Dinan's appearance:

Video 1


Video 2


Video 3


Video 4

David Tepper Says Market Isn't a Bubble: His Thoughts on Valuation, Tapering, Airlines & More

After the Robin Hood Investors Conference last week, Appaloosa Management founder David Tepper sat down with Bloomberg TV to talk about the markets.


On market valuation: He does not think we're in a bubble now as he compared P/E multiples over the last 5 years to the 5-year period running up to the 2000 bubble.  Stocks now have seen little change in multiples, while stocks back then saw huge multiple expansion.

On airlines:  "Our big play versus the market is the airlines.  We're the biggest holder of many of these airlines." We flagged this big bet for readers of our Hedge Fund Wisdom newsletter over a year ago.  See what else Tepper is betting on by subscribing (a brand new issue was just released last week).

On his 2014 investing approach: "We'll probably stay long.  We recently put on a treasury short, to hedge ourselves against the equity markets.  Little bit scared of tapering... higher rates... though rates won't go that high."

On to be worried about: "I would be worried if I was a long/short guy and not long enough, that's what I'd be worried about.  But I'm not worried, because I am long.  But if I'm a L/S guy who can only go 60% long ... the biggest risk for the market is you'll have multiple expansion, higher growth, 10% earnings growth next year, and you'll have another year of 20-30% (performance)."

On J.C. Penney (JCP): "It was a tiny position... a trade and we're done."

On Twitter (TWTR):  They would have held Twitter longer, but they had a price target in the $40's and so when the stock hit that in the first days of trading, he exited.  "It's a discipline."

On Citigroup (C):  "Citi still has some pretty good upside, we think it can make 7 bucks a share."

On his performance this year:  "I think gross we're in the 40's (%)."

On tapering:  He does think it's time to start tapering. He also said: "There can be a short-term negative reaction.  But if you're tapering, it's because there's stronger underlying US growth.  And if there's growth, there's going to be higher P/E multiples and the market should be higher.  If the market goes down, that's great, it'll be one more opportunity that people will be come and buy."

On what a lower Japanese Yen means: "It means higher P/E multiples in Japanese companies, straight out.  That's the way it works, because they're such exporters. So when you have a weaker yen, you have higher earnings."


Embedded below is the video of Tepper's Bloomberg TV appearance:



For more on the Appaloosa manager, head to Tepper's other recent interview where he said he thinks the market could see an 18-20x multiple.

Bill Miller on What Stocks He Likes Now: CIMA Conference

Continuing the series of notes from the CIMA Conference (Columbia Investment Management Association), we move on to the presentation and Q&A from Legg Mason's Bill Miller.

Bill Miller on What Stocks He Likes Now

He started out discussing how he is different from traditional value investors. Low P/E, low cash flow not enough. Focus on long-term creation of business value, the future, not just the past. Allowed them to avoid the terrible returns of value investors. How does he invest in tech? There are a few platforms that are locked in long-term. They did do 10-year projections on Amazon. If you think through it carefully, you CAN make long-term projections on tech. (They are doing it with Facebook now).


AMZN example: high growth, high valuation companies, in aggregate, have small chance of maintaining that rate. But some can. What is the probability that this is an exception to the base rate? Once companies get a certain level of market share, it is very difficult for that share to be eroded. (Network effect). True even with low barriers to entry. You want a business with low switching costs that nobody switches from. GOOG/MSFT search example- GOOG has 66%; MSFT has 14%, even with spending. Once you have stable market shares, and large market. It’s judgment, understanding the industry, not just looking at P/E ratios. They are looking at Facebook now.

AMZN: low 20s GMs, and high cost structure. Bezos exploited technology and customer-focus, to achieve critical mass, costs all up front, market would finance it. When stock was down, Bezos said he was focusing on new markets and customer service. They had a dominating presence by then. Issue now is what is the level of OM long term? Bezos says it will still be a double-digit OM business long-term. Bezos said, “I’m not going to make the Steve Jobs mistake of pricing the iPhone to subsidize the rest of the world R&D by pricing it so high.” IPad is priced much more competitively, so they have total share.

Bruce Greenwald says cloud isn’t that profitable because they have to provide capacity when everyone needs it, so it’s not really just using their excess capacity. The device business is bad, too. Miller says the device business is defensive. All of retail is realizing that AMZN is a threat to EVERY segment. AMZN has all the data about what you buy, like, etc. Ease of use. End market is so large. GOOG: internal discipline issue on capital spending.


How he does valuation? Build probabilistic models. No predictions: what does the market believe, what is embedded in the price, what is the trajectory of the business? INTC, CSCO, AAPL, MSFT, good business with reasonable valuations today.

Macro is fading as an important thing for investors. People have adequately discounted the macro risks.


Biggest Lesson He's Learned: if building an investment business, you need to be different, and right. That will attract assets. He went from zero to 75B in assets. Those assets will also fly out when you are different and wrong. To build a business, be different and right, to retain the business, you have to be a closet indexer.

Things change. Understanding and recognizing them is the key. They were late in the game in recognizing how far valuations would be squeezed by the financial crisis. “Don’t rule anything out.” When in a crisis, wait for the global coordinated action.


Stocks Miller Likes Now:

2008 was a lot of permanent loss, 2011 was temporary losses.

1. Bullish on housing already, all data-driven. KBH up 80% for the year! Still lower than it was a year ago. Housing cycle in process of bottoming, orders are up, better business models. Massive cyclical turn, with profound implications for the US economy.

2. Genworth: Mortgage business down, 50-100% gain in 12 months.

3. Financials: C, BAC below tangible book.

4. Insurance companies: below book value.

5. Airlines: Worst industry in the history of the world. Here’s the difference now. Was commodity business, unionization, high regulation, and fuel costs volatile, fragmented. Highest share was 12% in the US. United now 26%, DAL 25%, so story is consolidated business with better pricing. Positive FCF for 3 years straight now. UAL 40% ROIC. $5 FCF, will be investment grade in a year, trades at 3.5x earnings. Small, risky position.

6. Techs: AAPL, largest position. What kind of company is it? Debate is if Apple is just a really good tech company, what’s it worth? Not much, these things change rapidly. If Apple is a recurring revenue company, consumer products company, then it’s radically mispriced. Bill makes the case that it is a consumer products company; the repurchase rate on the iPhone is 95%. Very few SKUs in line-up. Only 375 stores, only in a third of the carriers worldwide. Share in iPhone doubled from a year ago. Stock is 10x eps and low earnings estimates. 90B in cash, dividend possible. In short term, very low risk. Value it at the least, like a cable company. Compare to KO, or NKE.

7. Facebook: actually, the higher it goes, the more the probability of winning. You can’t look at it like paying $85B for $1B in operating profit. That’s what they DID; they’ll do $2B this year, more than AMZN ever had in history, higher margins, less competition.


Q&A Session:

Why banks? How can you trust the B/S? Have to compare categories to overall market prices. Consolidation means top 6 banks are 63% of GDP. It’s impossible for the US GDP to grow without the assets of the banks growing. Banks as a whole are mispriced, but not compared to each other. BAC has 70B market capital; they were earning 40B a year ago pre-tax, pre-provision. Biggest beneficiary of housing recovery. Can’t get comfortable at the micro level on all their assets, but you can get comfortable about the direction of those assets.

AMZN: can it wipe out other business? Way too early to say. No threat to WMT, COST, JCP.

Market: Best thing for the stock market would be for the bond market to sell off; indicates fear about tail events is dissolving. Biggest risk to the market is Israel attacking Iran. Policy errors. Like in 2008, they wiped out capital as they told people to raise capital.


For the rest of the notes from the CIMA Conference, head to these posts:

- Dan Loeb: Lessons He's Learned as an Investor

- David Einhorn Question & Answer Session

- Bruce Berkowitz's Basic Checklist for Investing & What He's Learned

- Distressed Investing Panel (Dan Loeb & Daniel Krueger)

- Long/Short Equity Investing Panel (Whitney Tilson)

- Michael Karsch on Risk Management

- Bruce Greenwald's Market Comments